Section 8 Clan Forums

Hello! I'm guessing that this is place where I submit a few claims I deem unfair, so here I go.

To start things off, I'd like to talk about a few guns that I think are unfair and while shouldn't be removed, but definitely nerfed.

1.) RPD - Rapid fire LMG with 100 rounds and extreme DPS. For a hardcore server, this is quite a common find amongst players and not only is it annoying, it's quite unfair. This beast of a machine gun packs a solid 100 rounds that you can hold down without a care in the world, spraying down a hallway or field, racking up kills on players who never had a chance to even look at you. I've done this on servers before where I somehow get them to rewrite the code that involved the RPD, changing the overall damage and pierce and it would be nice if that could be done here.


2.) RPG - The grenade launcher has been banned, and for good reason, but why run the grenade launcher which has its own defects, such as actual weight that drags it down and using an attachment, when you can just run the RPG with higher splash damage, faster travel speeds and extreme accuracy in short to medium range? At least with the attachment, you have to aim in front of your target and account for bullet drop, but here, you point and shoot and get a free kill. Die, shoot, die shoot. Especially on smaller maps where everyone dies quite often, this is an absolute annoyance. If not entirely revoked, it should be nerfed where it has less splash damage. That's all.


Problem number 2, and with all due respect, the Admins & General Rules.

Now, before you suspend my account, let me explain. As an avid debater and member of the debate team at my school, I have a tendency to pick arguments of any size with anyone because that's how arguments work. I shouldn't be punished for voicing my opinions at an Admin, despite how long they've worked for their status. They're still there to assist players, answer questions and satisfy the general public, and when I bring my concerns to the table and say a comment about the RPG, a few players jump on me and shout me down for having such an opinion. Now, when someone calls me a bitch who should cut off my dick (or something along those lines), I should be able to retort with a reasonable, valid argument. But, alas, I can't and I'm forced to take the blame for everything, receiving warnings and kicks for simply trying to voice a concern and defend myself against aggressors. I don't use any vulgar language and I represent my arguments well with actual facts and concerns, but when a few players don't like that, and even one of the Admins don't like that, I'm automatically wrong and should never speak of the subject again, despite the fact that they can't come up with a valid claim to support their side. This obviously isn't fair, as everyone is equal under the law and everyone has a right to speak. Now, I understand that I should take my words to the Forum, which I have, but it is much easier to speak directly to an Admin than submit this post, and I like going the easy route. Simple fix to a simple solution, right? Allow players to have civil disagreements with members of Staff as long as they can back themselves up. There should be no authoritarian community dominating every conversation, right?

Anyway, I got my point across. Don't ban me if you can't refute my claims. Simple.

And for those who say "Oh, this is just a game. Shut up.", yeah, this is a game, but I like to think of what goes on in that chat box is an entirely different IP, often being about something unrelated to a game. Open your mind. Think for once.

Zucc..

Thank you for your concern. i completed understand how you feel about the RPG.. let me explained again..

RPG is not a GL. it is a different weapon. the rules for the server allow the RPG and the last stand for so long. everyone have been doing it for so long as well with me.

RPG is my choice of using because it is FUN to use it . my choice. you kept wanted to debate about it. it is not the place to debate at the game. i kicked you because you have been upsetting alot of players. i didnt want those players to THINK you have ever right to put me into the spot. it is unfair for you to do this. it is RULES that this clan already set this servers. dont like it.. sorry. again i have asked you not to argued with me. you said invalid ? so no other reasont to contiuned to talk to you when you already set your mind that you are 100 percentage . sorry to said. it doesnt work that way. so i will let the other amins to voice their opinion.

since this steam has updated a lot of servers. I am pretty sure this server is only one doesn't allow GL and martyrdom while other servers does. so I bet I have seen you at other servers where they been using tube on you. why didn't you argued with them .. Im trying to see your points why us.. why now.. ?

once again. if this RPG is upsetting you.. please feel free to play somewhere else.

First off, I'd like to thank you for bringing your concerns to the forum, where topics such as this are meant to be had.

Problem #1
1. As for the RPD, I personally don't find that it's as much of a hassle as you feel it to be. Though, that's my own opinion. Fine tuning the weapon is for sure something we admins can discuss among each other and see what we can have done. I'll say that I've never really seen another person make an argument against the RPD before - something to keep in mind.

2. RPG's have always been a love it or hate it weapon on our server. I'm someone who never uses it, and will never be caught using it. Though, I've learned to just play through when they are getting used, even when it becomes excessive on one team. Again, I will bring this point up to discuss among other admins. RPG's have been accepted in our server since the beginning of time, so again the existence of them probably will never disappear. Though, I personally like the idea of the splash damage being reduced. Will everyone else, probably not. We'll see.

Problem #2

Unless we have reason ON the server, I don't see a reason that we'd suspend your account. This is what I like to see the forums used for and if you are going to argue your points anywhere, I'd like it to be here. We admins, yes we are there to police the server but we do enjoy actually getting play time in and not having to argue with every other person. Always keep in mind that we have to deal with a lot in the server... marty, tubes, language, racism, blatant disrespect,hacking, hackusations, ect... that someone trying to 'debate' on the server is going to come across a little irritating, and kind of like you aren't listening to the admin when they are asking you to drop it or even bring it to the forums. We've heard some of the same arguments over and over and we can only defend our rules that have been set in place so much before we just want to smack our face. Bringing it hear opens it all up in a different way, and we can take time to patiently think about what the other person is trying to get across.

"Now, when someone calls me a bitch who should cut off my dick (or something along those lines), I should be able to retort with a reasonable, valid argument."

I am in need to disagree with the above. We are to deal with said person, and if an admin is not - then I'd expect you to come here and relay the situation. Good natured arguing(meaning both parties are just having a good time) we are good with, but in this case you are just dropping to his level and causing the admin to have to deal with both of you. We aren't very tolerant of arguing on the server. It riles people up, and turns the server toxic. Look at it this way - if the conversation you are having is negative and is having negative effects among the server...we are going to shut it down.

I'd like to thank you for considering my ideas about nerfing said weapons and bringing attention to other members of the team. It's more than I expected and I hope to see what comes of it. But now, I must move on to the much more pressing discussion.

At the time of the incident where Painkiller and I had our dispute, only one other issue was present, with a simple grenade launcher user who soon learned his lesson. I realized that I could talk to someone in the S*8 clan about my issues and for the first few minutes, everything was fine. I gave my reasons and I asked for a rebuttal of some sort to disprove me, and I believe the only response I got from Painkiller was that it's not banned so I shouldn't have a problem with it. Obviously, I got a little ticked off at this since I was expecting much, much more, and since I do now realize that I was a nuisance to deal with, I do apologize for wasting your time, but I wanted to make clear just how strong my claims were. I was certain I had won that argument. I was certain that I had dominance over that scenario. But, since I was not even a member of the S*8 clan, I didn't. I would like to point out how some actions were dealt with rather harshly. One player who had nothing to do with the argument decided to bring up a fact that RPGs required skill to use. Before that, I dropped the conversation since I didn't want to face punishment. I said the player (not staff) and I could continue if he/she wishes. Keywords to notice was "if he/she wishes". I was kicked shortly after for what I claim to be nothing. I didn't start another argument, I was only open to it since that's how I'm supposed to practice. No punishments or critiques were given to the player. Even after that, any player on his side was given immunity as long as they didn't break the language barrier by calling me a bad word, but me even typing in chat was about enough to give me a !follow command for arguing. All players involved were being annoying to Painkiller without a doubt, with me being the top of the chain, but I felt in the right to defend myself from these accusations and rude comments. It didn't feel fair to me that I had to endure these criticisms and get punished for defending myself while they got off free. The only other player warned was the one who used profanity, but there were about 3 or 4 others. This is all I remember, sorry if I'm missing detail.

zucc..

again I have told you to drop it. you wanted to debate. I am there to enforce the rules same time I wanted to play. at this time from 1130 pm to 2 or 3 am is my downtime. to play and have fun. yes other players did called you a nasty name and I have warned him or her not to do it again and that player RESECTED me and stopped from there. you wanted to debate.. you wanted me to give you a reason.. you wanted me to stopped playing and explained to you everything. I simple told you it is allow and its already decided by the clans. you wanted me to give you a valid reason. we did dropped it. someone did tube during the game and I did enforced the rules.. like no tube.. and yet you got into this and wanted me to explained to you the different. I asked you not to argued with admins. you did upsetting a lot of players along other admins. I don't blame them for being upsetting. they came here to have fun.. not to hear the whining.. ongoing debate. I have noticed several players made a comment.. im out of here bec of this drama. I didn't want it happen and I did kick you for a reason.. to tell you to drop it. it is not harash to do as you thought it was. it is a lesson to tell you to chill.. i did set the follow on you because you did ARGUED with me about this.. i am OK for moving on from this. i dont appreacite you challenged me ongoing and embrassing me front of other players. Think abgout it. for a a moment...… you are expert at this debate.. fine.. do it at home.. school .. not at the sever.. we all come here to have FUN.. FYI,, this is the fact.. other players didn't annoying me.. they were very annoying by your debate and complained. i believe other admin told you to shut. you also pissed off several of players which caused them to cuss at you. i don't blame them but however there was warned issues to them. again i am asking you to move on from this and accept the factg i will be using RPG no matter what, i do hope to see you around..

Let us look at you as the 'core' of this argument and everyone else a branch(on the server). I name you the core because you were the catalyst to this whole thing with starting that argument about RPG's. The branch's, according to Pain stopped arguing right away, when asked. Though, with you still arguing, that is still going to tempt the natural reaction of a human, to argue back or in people's case defend our rules for us. In order for this to be controlled, Pain did the one thing that would set an example to everyone else, and do that was 'punishing' the core person.

I'm not going to lie - we the admins do have the last say. Right or wrong, it's always wise to follow the instruction of the admin on the server. If you feel the admin is in the wrong, coming here is your best option. Sometimes, even coming here wont give you the results you want to hear, unfortunately. It keeps it off the server and let's EVERYONE have a good time. When it comes to a server, we think of the majority over the minority - in most cases. Yes, you look singled out but at the same time Pain has a server starting to get riled up because they just want to play the game on a server that most have been playing on from months - years with the same rules set, and have probably heard others try arguing them at some point or another as well.

From what I can tell, everyone else on the server was tired of hearing about it. I believe Pain did the right thing.

I appreciate you coming here so we can talk this out though. Thank you again.

I would also like to add a tidbit.

I understand the debate side of things, and I get wanting to debate rules and regulations that you disagree with. We do accept such debate as long as it stays friendly, though this would be the place for it, not on the server. As for winning the argument, I wasn't there, and you very well may have, but winning an argument doesn't make you right, especially in regards to rules already set in place, it just means you're better with words and better at setting your case.

As I'm sure you can, I can argue just about any angle on any subject, whether I agree with my own "stance" or not, but as aforementioned, it does not always put me on the right side of the argument. To be clear, I'm not necessarily saying you were wrong, just trying to drill the point that there's a difference between winning and being right. In this specific case, there may be a discussion about changing/tweaking the rules regarding RPG/RPD. Though they have been around for years, the rules are not set in stone. Though this may open a discussion, please be fully aware that a discussion does not guarantee any type of change, including the change you're looking for. It begins as merely a discussion and very well may stay at that stage. If that becomes the case, we request that you live with it and agree to abide by it without complaining, knowing that we have noted where you're coming from. Your voice has been heard and we will go from there.

Finally, and this is really more of a side note than anything, the term "think for once" that you used in your first note, though understandable, is still not appropriate in my opinion. We (as in admins and leadership) consider the rules of our clan consistently, and always are looking for ways to better said clan. This requires a lot of brainpower between many people, and we do our best to make it fair and fun for all, or at least the majority. The attitude that comes from this statement has no place in a debate and would not be welcomed in a formal debate, as I'm sure you're already aware. Though this is not a formal debate, we still ask that we receive the respect we deserve, and implying we do not think to the level you deem permissible does not give us with that level of respect.

To end, thank you very much for bringing this to the forum, and do know you are appreciated. This is in no way a ganging up on, or a slam session on you, just an open discussion with multiple parties.

Thanks again,

[s*8].NobodyCan

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"If I can't do it.." -NobodyCan

Let's take a look at that magical word "unfair" that seems to be used so often these days.

Unfair means having an advantage that no one else could possibly be expected to have or overcome.

The RPD is not unfair, nor is the RPG. There is no restriction on who is able to use them.

"They kill you before you can see the enemy" so do the air strikes, but they're not listed in your complaint. Hell, they might kill you multiple times if you respawn into them. So not only did you get killed by someone without seeing them, you got spawn raped too. All with a click of the mouse by one person.

I use both of these weapons on a regular basis and get KDRs of 1:5 or worse regularly. There is no inherent advantage to them.

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That which doesn't kill you, disappoints me.

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Wholeheartedly agree with Nilrem's statement.

And besides, if the RPG was that deadly, it would be both Ruddy and M's weapon of choice

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Semper Fi is my moto...Not because the Marine corp made it popular, but because of its meaning...It's how I live my life, Every, Single, Day.

My two cents
As Pain Killer said he's there to unwind not spend his whole time debating someone about our rules.
Its good you brought it to our servers where it should have went.